NANBF User Forum

This is a really touchy subject and it always comes up at just about every contest. I would like to address this. Before I was a promoter competing in the NPC contests, before the NANBF existed (Yeah I am old!), and had done a couple of NANBF shows I felt at times that of course I should have placed better and I got robbed at times. Getting involved like I am today however I can honestly tell you that we at the NANBF do everything in our power to keep bias out of all our calls. We rotate judges at all our shows so the same people are not there every year. We also try to get at least over half of them from out of town so they do not know anyone they are judging and could care less about what club sponsors what competitors or what competitors come from the prominent trainers in our areas. Just like how we test to make sure you get a level playing field we do this to make sure our judges are also giving you a fair playing field. We screen our judges with testing and also are not just letting in anyone but we recruit those people that are referred only by other promoters as having good integrity.

One of the big issues is that, yes, some promoters also train people for contest's. This is a really hot issue for allot of competitors who think that this is why they did not do well. One thing you have to remember is that our sport's community is very small and there are really not that many trainers that work with bodybuilders. What you find is that some of the promoters/trainers are just very good at prepping competitors and once their people do well more gifted bodybuilders or figure competitors start to seek them out. Eventually, therefore, their camps will produce allot of good competitors. They get more volume of people and then it is a numbers game as well. This can make it look like there is bias. Just like the top college Football Programs that win every year. The best players go to those schools, so they continue to be good year in and year out. Also contrary to what some people may think promoters do not judge or have anything to do with their contests scoring or placing's.

Promoters that compete. I am one and I can tell you we do everything we can to keep bias out of this as well. Personally if I felt I could never be judged without bias I would not compete in the NANBF. If a competing promoter is tied to a judge by marriage or family we replace them in that round by another and usually by the promoter (all of us are judges) or by another selected judge if available. If this cannot be done promoter/competitor will not compete in the contest. Being a promoter/competitor I feel that being judged by constituents can actually go against me more than help at times. Most of the judges know us better than most other competitors and expect more out of us and I believe we are scrutinize more harshly. A nutshell of how I have placed should give anyone the idea that I don't get special treatment : Lately since competing in the master I have done well winning every time. I have taken good care of myself and I do have good longevity genes. My father still works (part time) at 86 years old. In my Open career I have only won 1 overall and placed 1st in an NANBF Open class twice in 15 years. I have missed top 5s a few times and have had allot of 3rd's, 4th's and a few 2nd's. It took me many years and finally I won my pro-card at 50. You would have to agree that this is not a stellar career and does not sound like a career that was tainted by biased placings. I guarantee there are going to be people who read this that have blown away what I have accomplished in just a few years.

I at no time being involved as a judge or a competitor have felt at any time that we have had any biased scoring. I can promise you that every promoter in this federation is dedicated to making sure that it does not happen.

Judging Criterias to help you for bodybuilding :
Most of the time if you think you have not been judged well you have to look at your pictures and video. We are looking for the complete package. You have to have symmetry, great condition, and you must pose your mandatories well. Then if their is a tie, we break it with symmetry. The biggest problem allot of competitors have is with their idea of what symmetry is.
Symmetry means you have all bodyparts developed with balance. You cannot win with only an upper body or just arms as an example.

You must be lean. In my opinion Good Bodybuilding goals are 3.5% for men and Women 5-6% bodyfat. Figure 7-8%.

Posing is usually the Achilles heal of most competitors. I see people that time and again beat themselves with bad posing. You see guys and women that look great back stage and look like it is clear cut that they will do well. Then they lose to guy or gal that was 10lbs lighter or you would swear there is no way he or she could have lost to them. Posing 9 times out of 10 was the cause. This happens all the time.

I hope this helps!

John,
I dont know what else to say other than......well put. I am not a judge, but I have to say that I think you look amazing for a 50 year old man! You and Becky are tackling the aging process right. I only hope to do it half as well!!!

Cori

Well put John, I did the Northwest Arkansas show in June 08. I placed 3rd, at first I felt I should have been placed higher. I know I was in better form than the two who beat me. I know they both do a lot of shows in that area, so I blamed it on that. {Judges have seen them often} After veiwing the DVD of the pre judging I know what beat me . I beat myself, I was not as prepared for all the mandatory poses as I should have been. I will be ready next year. Thanks

Thats funny I thought i should have placed higher too! lol Sometimes my ego gets in the way.
Thats why I always ask questions after the show the judges are honest and fair. Ya I know suck up! And i learn from every contest and rely on there input if you dont know whats broke you cant fix it!

I think watching the videos really help, that's why I will always order them. I thought I did well too. I know I had not as lean lower body as I would have liked. I honestly thought my posing was the best though, sorry had to say that. But I know what I need to improve upon to do better. April I'm going to show up looking like I want.

It is interesting how many people tell me that once they have looked at their video of the contest they settle down and see what caused them to place lower than expected. Pictures are OK but they do not tell the whole story. Good bodybuilders recognize that to get better be it with leanness, size, posing, skin color is the goal. Very Seldom you see a rookie just blow every one away. Make no mistake there are people that train for years, you know the guy or gal that everyone hounds to do it, but do not get the courage then when they do they seem to come out of nowhere.

Bodybuilding is so personal and it is very hard to take the criticism sometimes but you have to build on it. I believe it is one of the hardest sports to master or should I say you never master it.

Very well put John! After 4 years of competing in the NANBF, I had the opportunity to test judge at the Elk River, MN show yesterday... and wow, what an enlightening experience! I realized what a tough job the judging panel has, and there is so much more that goes into it than I ever imagined. Given the process in which the scores are tabulated, there is no way that a bias could impact the results. I am confident that being on the other side of the bright lights has given me a much broader understanding of our wonderful sport of natural bodybuilding~

I felt the same way as everyone else. I did competition this year and I got fourth place and when I got fourth I was thinking no way. I then looked at the photos and thought the samething, thought I should have placed higher. But, then I saw the video, and trust me, I deserved fourth place. Video does not lie and it will reveal everything.

I made a big mistake of trying too come in bigger this year. I did my first show last year and came in at about 176. I was ripped and shredded and won Novice Tall, Novice Overall, and Open Tall. I lost the overall posedown at the end by one point. But, for some stupid reason I decided I was going too come in bigger. So I skipped my cardio and and did less reps. And let me tell you that hurt me really bad. I was not conditioned at all and I defiinitely was not hard. It really hurt me on stage too cause I was not conditioned so I could not hold my poses at all.

So next year when I compete I am going too be the most conditioned bodybuilder on stage. John you and your wife will see a big difference. You guys judged both of my competitions. Elijah Lewis

Bodybuilding is not easy nor is Figure which is a form of bodybuilding as well in my opinion. Very seldom do you see athletes do great the first time out. What you see eventually is more consistency with all the pieces put together. Eventually that person will place higher and higher. Unfortunately we do not all possess perfect symmetry or the genetics. I have seen many times people win by catching the guy or gal that has all the genetics and experience that coast into a contest. The over achiever would be much harder and posed better. I can tell you these are people, the gifted ones, that lose it more often.

The one thing that drives me crazy is to see competitors that are worried about losing size. So they want to stay big and forsake leanness to do it. I see people compete in my show year in and year out that I actually have pulled them aside and tell them to get lean and they could win their pro cards and they just do not listen. Yeah it is a little freaky when you start swimming in your clothes but when I am at leanest for contest I always have placed higher. What is interesting is that I get more people telling me I look heavier when I am at contest trim. More flair to your muscle from the joint gives you that illusion. If you diet right as well you will not lose muscle. I have actually done some of my PR's in my lifts just weeks out from contest. So losing fat does not mean a weaker bench press.


When I am judging I have a hard time giving a higher place to someone that no doubt is not as muscular but is too fat knowing that they should do better. I actually have placed a slightly smoother athlete higher that may have better symmetry done this and caught crap from the other judges for it. While judging I see competitors all the time and think that, man, if they were only leaner they could win this contest. I mean some of these guys would not even place in the top 5 that could win their class just because they are afraid of losing size. I see this talent all the time that does not show through because of this phobia. As Elijah now knows this is a mistake. This is just the learning process you go through. It seems that everyone does to varying degrees.

I have learned from my mistakes. I will not worry about size this year, I will come in shredded.

Well Shredded 101 is your name so you gotta live up to it. Right?

danam wrote:Very well put John! After 4 years of competing in the NANBF, I had the opportunity to test judge at the Elk River, MN show yesterday... and wow, what an enlightening experience! I realized what a tough job the judging panel has, and there is so much more that goes into it than I ever imagined. Given the process in which the scores are tabulated, there is no way that a bias could impact the results. I am confident that being on the other side of the bright lights has given me a much broader understanding of our wonderful sport of natural bodybuilding~

I love it when a bodybuilder gets a taste of judging for the first time. Like you said you find out that it is almost impossible to have a panel that is totally bias the way we do it.

You are right John. I gotta live up too it. There is not a day that goes by where I do not think about my training, dieting,posing, cardio etc.

Shredded101 wrote:You are right John. I gotta live up too it. There is not a day that goes by where I do not think about my training, dieting,posing, cardio etc.

I hope can work and have a family life (If you have one). This is one thing you have to keep in perspective. Make it fun and it will come. Kinda rhymes don't it?

losing size/weight is the hardest part for me...growing up as an extremely skinny kid i had to fight to get my body where it is and i hate losing even an ounce...in 5 contests that thinking beat me 4 times...the time it didn't i came oh so close to winning...